Celestial-Based Warlock idea, expand

I was thinking about making a new Base Class involving the same basic idea as the warlock, but with celestial ancestry rather than demonic. My basic idea would be something along the lines of:

--Holy Blast (better name would be appreciated ) same d6 progression as warlock
--DR/Adamantine?(IDHMBIFOM, if anyone can let me know what the equivalent would be for celestials, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.)
--Maybe Read Magic instead of Detect Magic at will? Due to the fact that celestials in my head strike me as more knowledge driven.
--Similar invocations with simple things replaced (instead of the darkness spell, daylight. Even just changing some names and keeping the effects the same on some.)

There's the core, they would progress just like warlocks, but have an Any Good requirement/Any Lawful, instead of any Evil and any Chaotic. Bad idea? Needs more? Comments welcome.

Holy Blast, Holy Blast, Holy Diver...No, that's wrong.

Divine Might, Righteous Might/Blast, Seraphim Stare, Angel's Finger, Divine Blast, Star's Touch, Holy Bolt, Angel's Talon, Angel Bolt/Blast... That's about all I've got.

I think it's a decent enough idea, but I've got weird symmetry issues so my opinion might be suspect.

I'd like it to stack up to be roughly a warlock but any good or any lawful. Polar opposite while being altogether symmetrical would be the long-term goal. As I stated, some parts would be really easy to swap around. But, with my limited knowlege of celestial beings, I have a hard time coming up with equivalents. Thanks for the suggestions on the blast title, I'd probably like Holy Bolt or Star's Touch best. Or holy diver But the invocations are akward. What's the polar opposite celestial equivalent of turning into a swarm of devil-bats and flying away? Cure Light Wounds? Haha. I guess I should wait until I know a bit more about celestials, but I would like to see how this would pan out. At least in a rough version.

Actually, if you were going for total opposites, instead of the Eldritch Blast equiv., the warlock should be firing off healing spells. :)

Since we're going for more of a "different but equal" feel, I'd probably go with a flock of doves or a cloud of glittering dust for that type of transformation...perhaps even a swarm of celestial ants or another type of bird.

That's true, I was thinking polar opposites as far as the abilities went, but they're pretty much same crap, different name. I may look at a warlock "opposite" that shoots off healing spells, that sounds really interesting. I like the idea with the doves, I can't really remember exactly his invocations (my complete arcane's in the mail right now), but I was having trouble with some of them. One I can remember now is sickening blast? Can't think of how to have anything slightly effective be same-but-different to this one. Well, let me get up my complete arcane and I'll post up a big one of all his abilities, maybe his level progression chart, and we can all brainstorm what would be the most effective way to start him up. I'd like to try to get some more homebrew stuff up on the site, I like flipping through what other people made on boards a lot.

Well, on the same but different effects....

Sickening Blast? Revelation...the target is shown (painfully) the ramifications of its actions through the "warlock"s perspective or the perspective of the warlock's patron diety. Nightmares and visions impair the target for the appropriate time and interfere with the targets' life...possibly until death/redemption?

I'd really have to be able to see what the descriptions of some of these abilities, but I don't have access to many of the books (just the core and a couple others)...

OK, quick run-through of the abilities:

Lvl 1-Eldritch Blast 1d6, Least Invocations
Lvl 2-Detect Magic at will
Lvl 3-Eldritch Blast 2d6, DR1/Cold Iron
Lvl 4-Deceive Item (can take 10 on use magic device checks)
Lvl 5-Eldritch Blast 3d6
Lvl 6-New Invocation Grade (Lesser)
Lvl 7-Eldritch Blast 4d6, DR2/Cold Iron
Lvl 8-Fiendish Resilience 1 (can enter a state and gain fast healing 1 for 2 minutes)
Lvl 9-Eldritch Blast 5d6
Lvl 10-Energy Resistance 5 (against 2 Elements of choice)
Lvl 11-Eldritch Blast 6d6, DR3/Cold Iron, New Invocations Grade (Greater)
Lvl 12-Imbue Item (can use magic device to imbue spells warlock doesn't know into an item)
Lvl 13-Fiendish Resilience 2 (same as above, but Fast Healing 2)
Lvl 14-Eldritch Blast 7d6
Lvl 15-DR4/Cold Iron
Lvl 16-New Invocation Grade (Dark)
Lvl 17-Eldritch Blast 8d6
Lvl 18-Fiendish Resilience 5 (same as above, but Fast Healing 5)
Lvl 19-DR5/Cold Iron
Lvl 20-Eldritch Blast 9d6, Energy Resist 10 (above selected energies)

Invocations:
Essenses: (Additional applications to the blast)
Least:
Sickening Blast- Fort save or become sickened
Frightful Blast- Will save or become shakened

Lesser:
Beshadowed Blast- Fort save or become Blinded for 1 rd
Brimstone Blast- Makes Eldritch Blast do fire damage and must make reflex save or catch fire
Hellrime Blast- Deals Cold damage and must make a fort save or take -2 Dex penalty

Greater:
Bewitching Blast- Must make will save or be confused for 1 round
Noxious Blast- Fort save or be nauseated
Repelling Blast- Relfex save or be knocked back
Vitriolic Blast- Ignores spell resistance and deals acid damage for several rounds

Dark:
Utterdark Blast- Fort save or gain 2 negative levels (oh yeah!)

Blast Shape Invocations: (changes the shape of the blast to hit diff targets)
Least:
Eldritch Spear- Changes the Range of Eldritch Blast to 250 Feet
Hideous Blow- Melee Atk Channels Eldritch Blast

Lesser:
Eldritch Chain- Blast hits multiple targets

Greater:
Eldritch Cone- Blast takes shape of a cone

Dark:
Eldritch Doom- Effects all enemies within 20ft

Other Invocations: (spell like abilities)
Least:
Baleful Utterance- Word of the dark speech to use the shatter spell
Beguiling Influence- Gain Bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate checks
Breath of the Night- Create Fog Cloud as the spell
Dark One's Own Luck- Luck bonus on one type of saves
Darkness- Darkness as the spell
Devil's Sight- See Normally in Darkness and Magical Darkness
Earthen Grasp- Use Earthen Grasp as the spell
Entropic Warding- Deflect Ranged attacks, Leave no trail, block track by scent
Leaps and Bounds- Bonus to Balance, Jump and Tumble
Miasmic Cloud- Cloud of mist that grants concealment and fatigues those who enter
See the Unseen- Gain See Invisibility as the spell
Spiderwalk- Gain Spider Climb as the spell, immunity to webs
Summon Swarm- Use Summon Swarm as the spell

Lesser:
Charm- Cause a single person to regard you as a friend
Curse of Despair- Curse one creature as the bestow curse, or hinder their attacks
the Dead Walk- Create Undead as the Animate Undead spell
Fell Flight- Gain a fly speed with a good maneuverability
Flee the scene- Use short-range dimension door spell and leave behind a Major Image
Hungry Darkness- Create Shadows filled with a swarm of bats
Stony Grasp- Use stony Grasp as the spell
Voidsense- Gain Blindsense out to 30ft
Voracious Dispelling- Use Dispel Magic as the spell and do damage to creatures whose effects were dispelled.
Walk Unseen- Use Invisibility (self only) as the spell
Wall of Gloom- Use Wall of Gloom as the spell

Greater:
Chilling Tentacles- Use Evard's Black Tentacles as the spell + extra cold damage
Devour Magic- Targeted Touch Greater Dispel Magic and gain temp hit points equal to the total level of spells dispelled
Enervating Shadow- Gain Total Concealment in dark areas and impose strength damage on adjacent creatures.
Tenacious Plague- Use Insect Plague as the spell, but the locusts deal magic damage
Wall of Perilous Flame- Create Wall of Fire as the spell, but half the damage comes from supernatural power.
Warlock's Call- Use sending as the spell, but risk damage from recipient

Dark:
Dark Discorporation- Become a swarm of batlike shadows gaining benefits from the swarm type
Dark Foresight- Use Foresight as the spell and communicate telepathically with a close target of the effect
Path of Shadow- Use Shadow Walk as the spell and speed up natural healing
Retributive Invisibility- Use Greater Invisibility (self only) as the spell that deals damage in a burst if it's dispelled
Word of Changing- Baleful Polymorph as the spell, but the effect could become permanent.

Whew. And that's that. Any comments, and I'll start trying to compile a same-but-different celestial warlock (not sure as to the title of the class either, honestly ). So any of you celestial experts out there who could convert some of the more demonic names into celestial terms would be quite appreciated.

Lvl 1-Star's Touch 1d6, Least Invocations
Lvl 2-Detect Evil at will
Lvl 3-Star's Touch 2d6, DR1/Brass
Lvl 4-Decipher Item (can take 10 on use magic device checks)
Lvl 5-Star's Touch 3d6
Lvl 6-New Invocation Grade (Lesser)
Lvl 7-Star's Touch 4d6, DR2/Brass
Lvl 8-Divine Vigor 1 (can enter a state and gain fast healing 1 for 2 minutes)
Lvl 9-Star's Touch 5d6
Lvl 10-Energy Resistance 5 (against 2 Elements of choice)
Lvl 11-Star's Touch 6d6, DR3/Brass, New Invocations Grade (Greater)
Lvl 12-Imbue Item (can use magic device to imbue spells warlock doesn't know into an item)
Lvl 13-Divine Vigor 2 (same as above, but Fast Healing 2)
Lvl 14-Star's Touch 7d6
Lvl 15-DR4/Brass
Lvl 16-New Invocation Grade (Dark)
Lvl 17-Star's Touch 8d6
Lvl 18-Divine Vigor 5 (same as above, but Fast Healing 5)
Lvl 19-DR5/Brass
Lvl 20-Star's Touch 9d6, Energy Resist 10 (above selected energies)

Invocations:
Essenses: (Additional applications to the blast)
Least:
Patron's Ire- Fort save or become sickened
Patron's Touch- Will save or become shakened

Lesser:
Visage of Light- Fort save or become Blinded for 1 rd
Patron's Gaze- Makes Star's Touch do Electiricity damage and must make reflex save or continue to be shocked
Patron's Oath- Deals Sonic damage and must make a fort save or take -2 Dex penalty

Greater:
Revelation- Must make will save or be confused for 1 round
Reveal Guilt- Fort save (Evil or Neutral targets only) or be nauseated
Repelling Blast- Relfex save or be knocked back
Patron's Name- Ignores spell resistance and deals sonic damage for several rounds

Dark:
Utterdark Blast- Fort save or gain 2 negative levels (oh yeah!)

Blast Shape Invocations: (changes the shape of the blast to hit diff targets)
Least:
Path of the Shooting Star- Changes the Range of Star's Touch to 250 Feet
Patron's Strike- Melee Atk Channels Eldritch Blast

Lesser:
Meteoric Wrath- Blast hits multiple targets

Greater:
Nova's Breath- Blast takes shape of a cone

Dark:
Eldritch Doom- Effects all enemies within 20ft

Other Invocations: (spell like abilities)
Least:
Baleful Utterance- Word of the dark speech to use the shatter spell
Beguiling Influence- Gain Bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate checks
Breath of the Night- Create Fog Cloud as the spell
Dark One's Own Luck- Luck bonus on one type of saves
Darkness- Darkness as the spell
Devil's Sight- See Normally in Darkness and Magical Darkness
Earthen Grasp- Use Earthen Grasp as the spell
Entropic Warding- Deflect Ranged attacks, Leave no trail, block track by scent
Leaps and Bounds- Bonus to Balance, Jump and Tumble
Miasmic Cloud- Cloud of mist that grants concealment and fatigues those who enter
See the Unseen- Gain See Invisibility as the spell
Spiderwalk- Gain Spider Climb as the spell, immunity to webs
Summon Swarm- Use Summon Swarm as the spell

Lesser:
Charm- Cause a single person to regard you as a friend
Curse of Despair- Curse one creature as the bestow curse, or hinder their attacks
the Dead Walk- Create Undead as the Animate Undead spell
Fell Flight- Gain a fly speed with a good maneuverability
Flee the scene- Use short-range dimension door spell and leave behind a Major Image
Hungry Darkness- Create Shadows filled with a swarm of bats
Stony Grasp- Use stony Grasp as the spell
Voidsense- Gain Blindsense out to 30ft
Voracious Dispelling- Use Dispel Magic as the spell and do damage to creatures whose effects were dispelled.
Walk Unseen- Use Invisibility (self only) as the spell
Wall of Gloom- Use Wall of Gloom as the spell

Greater:
Chilling Tentacles- Use Evard's Black Tentacles as the spell + extra cold damage
Devour Magic- Targeted Touch Greater Dispel Magic and gain temp hit points equal to the total level of spells dispelled
Enervating Shadow- Gain Total Concealment in dark areas and impose strength damage on adjacent creatures.
Tenacious Plague- Use Insect Plague as the spell, but the locusts deal magic damage
Wall of Perilous Flame- Create Wall of Fire as the spell, but half the damage comes from supernatural power.
Warlock's Call- Use sending as the spell, but risk damage from recipient

Dark:
Dark Discorporation- Become a swarm of batlike shadows gaining benefits from the swarm type
Dark Foresight- Use Foresight as the spell and communicate telepathically with a close target of the effect
Path of Shadow- Use Shadow Walk as the spell and speed up natural healing
Retributive Invisibility- Use Greater Invisibility (self only) as the spell that deals damage in a burst if it's dispelled
Word of Changing- Baleful Polymorph as the spell, but the effect could become permanent.


I'll try and make some changes here or there over the next couple days. I'm pretty much just winging this, so I can't say with certainty how balanced it will be. But most of this is really flavor, so I'm hoping that it won't unbalance things overly much. The changes I've yet to make will be in italicized font.

Very cool. I'll be looking forward to the updates. If you're going to continue with 4th coming so soon. Still, fun class, and not everybody who reads the boards is making "the switch" or at least right away. And maybe we can carry some of it over to the core warlock in 4th

Oops.

With all the 4.0/2.0 things going on, I'd forgotten about this. I'll try to put some work in on it pretty soon. I need to find my "happy place" back.

OK, I've updated a handful of things.

Descriptions that I'm leaving unchanged (or almost entirely unchanged) are underlined.

I'm still working on that "happy place" but at least I've found some ground that I can work with.

Well, I locked onto this thread and now I shall comment and contribute because this thread intrigues me! Ah!

First and foremost, for Invocation's, I think we should call them seals. That sounds a bit better for a Celestial based Warlock, as opposed to Invocations for Demonic-based Warlocks. They'd basically be the same thing, just have a different, better-suited name for this class idea.

Second, I think we should have a different name for this class all-together. It would help establish an identity, as opposed to 'Holy-Warlock'. Suggestions include 'Peacekeeper', 'Judiciary', 'Archonic'...ect. ect.(I vote for Peacekeeper...seems to be different enough from 'Warlock' in my view.)

Third, I think we should establish who these people are. Are they people blessed by gods, are they people whose very soul has been infused with holy power, or they something else? Do they HAVE to worship a god to have their power, or can simply tapping into their very soul's be enough?

And how would they use this power?

I agree with a previous statement made by someone who said 'They would be any lawful and any good' or some such, so I shall use this template.

A lawful-good aligned Celestial-Warlock would, I think, quickly join the local law-enforcement, the military or perhaps even the local good-aligned church. If they must lead, they would lead as any Paladin would, with Justice in one hand, Mercy in another, but always toward good.

On the other hand. a Lawful-Evil guy might use his powers to take over a goverment, and instigate Martial-Law...all in the name of 'Keeping the Piece'.

Expansion on these guys, as well as the one's I haven't spoken on yet, would be appreciated.

Awesome post! I had almost forgotten about this thread after 4.0 and what was happening IRL. I'm glad you dug this one up though, this could still be of interest to some people. A few notes:

Seals- While I believe you could still invoke a celestial being, I do like the idea of adding a distinction between the demonic warlock and a celestial warlock. Not sure how I feel on the name, but it definitely doesn't sound bad. I feel that somewhere out there a word might fit more appropriately.

How power is obtained- I was thinking about possibly something along the lines of a pact, similar to the warlocks. I should put more thought into this when it's not 7:30am and I haven't slept yet.

Very much for the any lawful any good, appropriate to the anti-warlock. He's made to keep order where the warlock creates chaos. Maybe that could even be a part of it, that the celestial beings create the "peacekeepers" out of anger at the creation of warlocks for the sole purpose to hunt them down and kill them. Maybe some kind of attack bonus similar to the ranger's favored enemy?

But I really do appreciate the contributions, and maybe sometime soon one of us will mash all of the good stuff together and create a character page for the "Peacekeeper". I like what I see thus far.

Yay for replies!

#1: Well, I suppose there IS another word out there for that...what I've got is: 'Seals' (already mentioned), 'Judgments', 'Holy-Invocations' (as opposed to regular, demonic-invocations) maybe? Or maybe Evocations? Or some bizarre combination of each of these? *shrugs*

#2: That could work. An origin similar to Warlocks...but different almost completely.

#3: Favored enemy? Hmmmm...I'm indifferent. I might like it later, I might not, but it has promise...but I think you should broaden it a bit...a bonus against demon outsiders as well as Warlocks...yes anger out of the Warlock's creation sounds nice.

I'm also keeping in mind the idea that these guys can be evil too, like a Warlock can be good. It'd be an interesting thing to play...an Evil Peacekeeper vs. A Good Warlock.

The whole things just topsy turvy but nice in a plot-awesome sense.

I absolutely LOVE this idea! Many of the things I was going to say have already been said by others in this thread, so I’ll leave those out. :) But here are a few thoughts that I had as I read through.

First, what would be the role of this class and what makes it different than Warlock or Paladin? Would it be a Striker like the Warlock? Should it just feel like a “good guy” version of a Warlock, or should it have sort of a unique feel?

I was also thinking that just because he’s (she’s) “good” doesn’t mean he can’t do serious damage. If his damaging spells become heals instead, then it could make him feel like more of a cleric/paladin sort of character.

But, maybe there is a price to be paid when this character injures others? The easiest way to do this sort of thing would be to say that if the character injures a Good or Lawful Good creature that there would be a price to be paid. But there could be plenty of times when a “good” creature/person needs to be killed because of self-defense or the greater good of the people. And there are other times when injuring something “evil” should go against the nature of a Good aligned player. So maybe it should be that there is a price to be paid when the character injures a humanoid unless the character truly believes that they’re acting to protect themselves, or others, or for the greater good? It could be totally up to the character as a roleplaying aid, or it could be something where the DM gets to make a judgment call with the player getting a chance to explain why the character felt that it was necessary.

So, what type of price would need to be paid if this character injured someone needlessly? I don’t think it should be HP damage. Maybe it should be a temporary drop in an attribute or two, to show the inner turmoil over what they’ve done. Perhaps a 2 or 4 point drop in CON and CHA. The penalty could wear off in time, or the character could have to spend time in prayer/meditation/quiet reflection..

Well, there are a couple of thoughts thrown out for discussion. What do you think? Good.. bad.. ugly? :)

Those all sound like positive additions, but there is something I should point out. If you look at the dates, the first few posts were dated to 3.5e, heheh.

I think it could still be workable, but a lot of the names would have to change to suit the names of the powers the warlock currently has. And, without an opportunity to playtest as hard as 3.5, I have no idea how unbalanced a striker with even minor heals at a high level would be. I mean, I could always just shake up a cleric, but I wanted this class to "feel" like you're playing a warlock. Once I'm familiar with 4.0, I could always tweak it a bit with the above ideas.

So, back to your suggestions, I would definitely say I like the idea of a penalty for doing something intentionally wrong. However, the only thing I see with that is there would have to be an upside to the "penalty" of needing to be unerringly good. Maybe on the opposite spectrum (a reason to be truly good, and not just "not bad") could be if you do something *really* good you get a stat boost from the celestial being you bound yourself to. That they could "feel" your good act and rewarded you appropriately. As far as game schematics, maybe an action point spent equals some kind of class-appropriate boost? A huge surge in damage? I don't know, I'll have to play around with it a bit, and look at other classes and what they get for spending an action point. Haven't looked into that too much.

Once I get a chance to refresh myself on the 4e warlock, I'll be ready to toss in a few more ideas/suggestions as well.